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 Rogue/Scout Builder Guide

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Posts : 53
Join date : 2012-10-06
Age : 33

PostSubject: Rogue/Scout Builder Guide   Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:17 pm

Rogues, especially rogue/scouts, serve really only one function to a party: dpsing. They have little utility with only one party buff, two (very limited) cc skills, and one silencing skill. Most of their purpose comes from DPSing, but the do that well.

Don't get confused about the /scout part of rogue/scout. It is not a ranged class. You have two ranged skills that are useful to use at range in pvp sometimes, but other than that you are a close range class (meaning up and personal for all those hard hitting close range aoe's).


A note on Offhand damage
gear that gives offhand damage is technically the "rogue" sets but are useless. Don't get confused, just because we have an off hand dagger doesn't mean it does any damage. If you are REALLY inclined to increase your off hand damage, tier your offhand weapon. You will blow $80 on a t10 offhand and potentially see your overall damage drop from the loss of physical attack. So for this reason the off hand weapon only stated!

Crit vs PA
Your main focus as a rogue is crit and pa. It used to be that you wanted to find the highest crit gear and use it, but reaching 70%+ crit rate isn't to difficult now, so sacrificing crit for Physical Attack (once you hit 70%) is an option.

What to use and why
Generally speaking you gear will be broken up into three sets: your “hardmode” set (head, chest, boots, shoulders) which you get out of DL,Gch, Tosh-h; your normal mode set (legs, gloves, belt, earring) out of RT or some odds and ends; and your accessories. These are the most rigid parts of your gear. Your cape, bow, and off hand provide the most flexibility.

Use whatever bow you want. If you want to stat it find a bow with more physical attack, if you want to tier it use a cross bow with more damage. This is really up to you. Tiering a bow means you lose some stats (hp and physical attack) but gain extra damage on your shot skill, awesome if you are in a position where you have to stay at range, and amazing in pvp.

Most of your gear you can get away with at +12 t6. +16 your rings, necklace, chest, and weapons. t7 your chest and off hand. either t7 or dirty t10 your bow. t10 your main hand.

SOME NUMBERS ARE COMING. Ill give you an idea of what all the gear will give you under dura, unstatted, and unplussed. For these numbers I wont look at accessories, capes, daggers, or bows.

With the atrocity set, I will use the shints shoulder armor since it has the most crit of any shoulders in the game (i think? please correct me if i am wrong).

Hp 13101, pa 9310, crit 1321, damage 145

Hp 14290, pa 10655, crit 1391, damage 270

Hp 15670, pa 11421, crit 1481, damage 305

Barkud/odds and ends
Again, this consists of the barkuds set with a tinc earring, yawaka belt, leather gloves of vigilance, and shints leather leggings. For even more physical attack, you can get a leather belt of vigilance.

Hp 15380, pa 11643, crit 1227, damage 225

Lekani/odds and ends
Hp 16760, pa 12408, crit 1317, damage 260

The best statting rotation (once you reach castle stats+) is to use 3dex/pa's and 3 stam/pa's. If you can get core of the hero's use those. For example, my statting rotation is: Triumph of the bygone/eternity/hero, guardian of the bygone/eternity, core of the hero.
Edit: I realized that a str/pa eternity is more PA than a dex/pa hero. So the most pa you could get from stats is: Stra/pa eternity, dex/pa bygone/eternity, pa/hp hero, stam/pa bygone/eternity.
Dex/hp'sare acceptable filler stats to get you to end game, but after that are worthless. Avoid them if you can, but if you are trying to gear quickly don't be too afraid to use them.

I dislike stam/dex. You run short on both HP and Physical attack. Granted they are both affected by hero pots so you will see some increase when you use potions, but I still don't feel its worth it. Even as a filler stat, I would rather use Dex/hp. Even a str/pa.

remember, if you have nothing else, a dreamland stat is the same as a castle.

There is an alterantive dex build, using dex/pa, dex/hp, stam/dex of the eternity/bygone (or w/e two stats you wish to combine).

Both dex and PA builds both work well. PA build will eke out a little more dps on end game. A dex rogue will outdps a PA rogue if the dex rogue has high enough pattk. But dex build rogues can't get high enough pattk in tosh hard that a pure PA build rogue will outdps 'em. Pure PA build rogue can get about 100k patt unbuffed, pure dex, is about 80k with vn set. The difference is, however, very small in my experience.

On Palenque the 2 top r/s in terms of PVE and PVP are Walkyria and Odell (yours truly). Instead of talking math (which has been done before and has shown that PA build rogues will do more DPS than DEX build rogues after a certain PDEF threshold which is usually the highest level hardmode instance in any given chapter) let's talk empirical observations.

Shint T11, Tosh hard armor clean T7
Around 30k dex with hero potion, 80k pattk unbuffed (around 120-125k pattk buffed, full X runes and using keenness)
Stats 2 dex/pa, 2 stam/dex, 2 dex/hp (he's got quite a lot more hp than I do), but now has moved to 3 dex/pa, 2 stam/dex, 1 dex/hp (or 1 stam/dex, 2 dex/hp)
Something like 85k hp unbuffed (he always, always has his pet out, so i don't know for certain)

Shint T10, Tosh chest clean T7, rest of set clean T6
13k dex unbuffed, 86k pattk unbuffed, about 138k buffed. (Skipped hero/glory statting, retired for several months before coming back in april. Also don't have potential X runes nor do i have aggression X runes, only rev X).
Stat 3 dex/pa (or 4), and 3 stam/pa (or 2)
75k hp unbuffed

Empirical observations:
Tosh hard I do about 90% Walky's dps.
Krolin hard, dps is equal.

During full burn mode at the beginning, his dps outshines mine by quite a bit due to the fact most buffs increase damage of some sort and the dex modifier helps his damage a lot. After the 15 second full burn, my dps catches up. Final 3 bosses in Tosh (the burn bosses) we usually end up with about the same dps.

Walky can solo RT plat, and i think up to tree boss in RT dia. I can't do any such thing, I run like a baby if I'm tanking anything. I'm sure he gains a lot of benefits in SW as well which I do not have, but it's very hard for me to compare. We usually end up with the same amount of kills in SW. In all instances below Tosh Hard, walky beats me in dps because my extra pattk that I have is irrelevant. I think of pattk as armor penetration, helps with the concept of why pattk build works when damage is lower than that of a dex build.

Walky also beats the living crap out of trash mobs in instances with his dex mod and their pdef being low.

In any case, Walky currently outdpses me by a little. If i gain another 5k pattk or so, we'll be about equal in end game. He will always outdps me in any instance that isn't endgame in any given chapter.

Finally, dex-based statting is MUCH cheaper than PA statting due to the overabundance of stam/dex and dex/hp stats.

Hopefully that helps illustrate the differences between the two builds. Again, I reiterate, BOTH builds are good and viable. They have different play styles and have their unique benefits.

Well well, what do ya know, we both do very well in pve and pvp. Dex rogues and PA rogues can be friends. Razz

I have found that a total dex build with hero stats on 16 pieces of gear would give you 34945 pa just from stats (with 13810 dex).

A full pa build would give you 39008 pa from stats with 9206 dex.

The above numbers were taken with a hero potion and vn set in consideration. Without those, the dex build has even less physical attack.

Also dex has a minimal affect on dps: a 1k increase in dex relates to roughly a 100 damage increase. These are thorugh my own rough testings. Results may vary.

Instance Reqs
You can run any instance with full statted gear of previous instance
At GCh level, you can survive with 60-80k hp, and 60-70k pa. This is easily achivable with atrocity/yawaka gear that is temple/tomb statted. SC has similar (but slightly lower) reqs.

Tosh it is recommended to have 100-110k hp, with 80-100k pa. This can be reached with gch gear and bunker stats. Having blocks will go a far way in helping you reach that HP. AC has similar but lower reqs.

In my main hand I have:
wrath (damage)
raid (Attack speed)
recon (-aggro)
fatal (crit)

in my off hand i have:
block (stam/def)
potential (+all attributes)

in all other pieces of gear i have:
keeness (dex/hp)

If I had extra gold (I have no money) I would buy aggression instead of the keeness.

blocks will make up a large portion of your hp, so try to invest in revolution and block x's

Maxing or near maxing a skill at end levels is not a problem at all. To me, it is either level a skill all the way or not at all.

Rogue General:
-Shadow stab
-Nimble Hands

Scout General:
-Vampire Arrow
-Speed shooting mastery
-joint blow
-throat attack

-blood arrow (this skill should only be leveled if you use a tiered bow)

Rogue Specific:
-low blow
-wound attack
-dagger mastery
-blind spot
-numbing dagger
-sneak attack
-treasure hunter
-combat master
-offhand master
-fervent attack

Minor changes to what skills to level...especially scout skills. Joint blow and throat attack are well worth the levels. Blood arrow is not a useful anymore, i took it off the list of things to put tp into.

As far as tp goes, I have 130mil tp and all my rogue skills are at lvl 70.

This time, I'm going to cover rotation before buffs. As I've learned since my last guide, keeping your rotation exactly right is important, especially when burns wear out

Without buffs your rotation should be:
shadow stab (or blind spot)
low blow
wound attack
vamp/throatattack/shot/joint blow(in that order of importance) when they are up until woundattack is back up.
Once wound attack is up again, start again at shadow stab.

Some people dislike using joint blow / throat attack. In that case just drop them out. Joint blow and throat attack will do more damage than shot (with a t7 bow), but will crit more often. If you tier your bow i would recommend just sticking to shot. If you are using a t7 statted bow, use joint blow and throat attack in addition to shot and vamp arrow.

This rotation will preserve your energy so that you never run out, and give you some filler moves so your dps never drops. You will keep up good sustained dps, which is much more important than burning. Burning is nice, if you can burn a boss that is great, but there will be plenty of times where you or your group WONT be able to burn a boss, and this is where i see most modern rogues have their dps drop off. They burn great, and then suck terribly in their sustained dps.

Everyone knows the rogue/scout burn rotation. shadow->low->wound->lowblow spam->shadow->low->wound.

Remember, you can use instant cast buffs while playing an instrument. Just make sure that you stop using any skills when the instrument casts reaches around 1s or else the instrument will glitch. The cast bar will disappear but you will still be playing, so you can buff and play an instrument at the same time.

I also keep Frenzy Potions and I am always prepared to use fervent attack in case the boss fight goes longer than expected. If the boss isn't burned it's better to keep up speed potions than anything else, so when buffing mid fight make sure to use fervent attack and frenzy potion instead of using deadly or extinction potions. Also, if the boss doesn't die during burn phase and you use a tiered bow, use blood arrow here. Be especially careful now, if you haven't burned the boss on a strat heavy boss fight, now you have to balance that whole strat and the fact that you are losing HP and cant move out of your healers heal range.

The only thing in this rotation you might not have is soldiers attack and strike cape. everything else you should be carrying with you at all times, no excuses.

Coerce does work, but not the way that it used to, and not the way that people expect it to. Once the boss drops below 30% hp, the damage done by LOW BLOW increases permanently (or until the target dies, or heals, or you acquire a new target). It does not affect other skills.

While keeping up your rotation is important, if you die you become worthless to the party. Never stand in front of the boss, if the boss happens to do a frontal aoe, it will kill you. Now you are decorating the floor while your party carries you through the fight.

Also make sure to execute all strats flawlessly. Its better that a boss fight takes longer and you down a boss rather than trying to burn, messing up the strat, and wiping the group. Strat > dps.

It's generally not recommended to use diyce, it produces lower dps than pressing keys by hand. I do use it for executing my buffs though. The diyce in my old thread worked with (and only works with) diyce 1.4, the following diyce is only compatabile with dice 2.0

I have 1 house keeper for my physical attack buff (level 100 buff, gives me 6% pa). Make sure you buy a house keeper with battle that goes up to 100.

I also have two cooking house keepers who's affinity I keep maxed at 39. This way I can pull 100 or so caviar sandwiches from their cooking each day.

I also have a lvl 100 protection house keepr with level 80 crafting. If i need an hp buff i can use the protection, but on most days i just use it for luck potions.

Finally i have a lvl 22 crafting house keeper for Unbridled Enthusiasm.

I am considering buying a second PA house keeper, or possibly a lvl 100 crafting house keeper for god speed potions.

Relationship buffs
Keep lots of family member buffs around, the hp is nice. If you are going to get married only for the the buff, marry a tank or a healer if you can. They will like the pdef.

Get a low level holy dark pet. Read a pet guide on how to level it. That is outside the scope of this guide.

Tips and Tricks
My favorite part of being a rogue/scout is seeing how much I can substitute and live through.

Varanas Nightmare
In VN, keeping your sustained dps rotation correct is more important than burning. Also, here it is more important to spread out your burns. Use informer, energy thief, and frenzy potions as you run in. Also use substitute, and spread away from the group immediately. Sub will save you from the 45k aoe.

Don't pop buffs on the 1 add.

next round, if you choose to, use fervent attack. alternatively, save it for the two adds.

third round use sub again, and no buffs.

on the three adds, if you need to pop buffs, pop whats left, otherwise save for the last 25%.

Grafu Castle Hard
Keep bears, jugglers, and knights shadow prisoned or numbing dagger away from the group. Its better to CC mobs and not do as much damage than it is for these mobs to run into the group and wipe people.

The most important thing to remember in GCH is that whirlwind will kill you. get out of those close range AOE's.

Sub will NOT save you from the single target poison skill on the fifth boss. Don't try it.

As a r/s i am able to tank heticus when the two bears are up, but i have high dex (and consequently low pa =( ). When this is the case, we put all the rogues and the lowest dps hitters in my group so i can have an easier time holding aggro. After that I just dps it, pop evasion, sub, candy, and blade cape whenever I can.

Tomb of the Seven Heros
The burn the first boss gives you that one shots you can be sub'ed. The same applies for sword breath release on the second, and elder's battle cry on the fourth boss.

Big leeway on the 6th can and cannot be. Sometimes it works, sometimes it dosent. Sometimes you run to the other side of the room and die, sometimes you stand next to him and survive. Big leeway is a really glitchy aoe.

It is also important to note that if you have more rogues than can fit in a party, you should either have a rogue with a tier'ed bow stand back and spam shot, or have someone more skilled who is able to run in, dps, and run back to the other group fast enough.

Substitute can also absorb the hit from the battle axe so the trail of fire can be significantly shortend. Just side step a bit from the group, sub, take the hit, and come back.

Aeternal Circle
Solve the puzzles in hide. Don't just do one round and then kill the mobs, solve the whole puzzle, then hide back to the group and get ready to pull a lot of boxes.

Sprint and sub through tornadoes.

On the first boss, it might seem like a good idea to have a tierd bow so you can spam shot while avoiding the tornadoes but DON'T DO IT. Keep the group as close together as you can.

On the twin boss, im usually the only person dpsing the boss held by our off tank, since I seem to be the only rogue with negative aggro in my guild O.o; You should keep the rogues with negative aggro dpsing the off tank'ed boss, and the rest of the dps with the main tank. This isnt really much of a "tip" as it is common sense.

Krolin(world boss)Don't use vanish on this boss or he glitches.

Rakshas Temple
Most rogues can easily tank norm or bronze. Take out your recons, and if you have some high dps mages in the party, but a hatered or two.

Sub will save you from the bolgu blast.

Kawaks Tomb
Why are you even in here? Don't use tomb stats, you can start of your statting with castle+ stats, and none of the gear is worthwhile. I don't have any tips or tricks for this instance because you should never step foot in here.

Sardos Castle
If you can do SC, you can do at least the first boss of AC and get eternity stats. So there is no reason to be using bunker stats anymore, no reason to be in this instance. Maybe you want an od trap ring, but at that point its probably your last piece of gear, and you will be an experienced rogue by then (hopefully).

PVP (Siege War)
Ill try to cover how to deal with different classes. In siege, you can usually one or two shot people with low blow.
This entire section will change if and when they implement the 90% damage reduction in pvp.

Escape will keep you immune from getting feared and make you invis for 8-10 seconds in siege war. Use it to deal with fear towers

Strike Ring
Strike ring wont make you invisilbe, but it will make you immune to fear for 10 seconds.

Ignore them. They wont kill you. Probably.

Start off with sneak attack
low blow
throat attack

If they still aren't dead, you should probably vanish. or their team mates killed you.

Just a quick reminder, anyone can pop immune food or buffs (or in the case of a druid, rock protection) while stunned, so don't waste throat attack if they decided to immune. Wait for it to wear off, then throat attack them.
Throat attack(or sneak attack)
wound if you opened with sneak attack, or use shot and vamp.

Wait for them to pop out of hide, then shadow stab or vamp. MAKE SURE YOU GET A BLEED ON THEM. Then low blow!

Run the (expletive) away?
Or shadow prison, lowblow, joint blow/shot/vamp.

If its a scout/knight, just run away.

If its a wd/w tank, be careful. They will have both hard hits, and high defense. These might be as difficult to kill as a s/k.

If its a wd/s, take out the chiron. The pet can one shot even a 300k pdef priest. After the pet is dead, low blow the warden.

I hope that helps Very Happy
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